Third Eyes Open

Heaven Is A State Of Consciousness

Jesus of Nazareth

The Talmud is a collection of Jewish civil and religious laws including commentaries on the Torah. Christians usually cite portions of the Talmud as evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus. They simply claim that Yesua of the Talmud refers to the Jesus of the bible. Yeshu however, according to learned scholars depicts a disciple of Jehoshua Ben-Perachia at least a century before the Christian Jesus.

Regardless how one interprets this, the Palistinian Talmud wasn’t written until the 3rd and 5th century and the Babylonian Talmud between the 3rd and 6th, two centuries after the alleged crucifixion of Jesus of the bible. The Jesus of the Talmud simply can’t possibly be in reference to the Jesus of the bible and simply can’t serve as evidence for a historical Jesus.

Christians use the Talmud for their evidence of Jesus because all other reference pertaining to him from sources (both Christians and non-Christians), comes from less reliable sources such as:

Mara Bar-Serapion (circa 73 C.E.), Ignatius (50 – 98? C.E.), Polycarp (69 – 155 C.E.), Clement of Rome (? – circa 160 C.E.), Justin Martyr (100 – 165 C.E.), Lucian (circa 125 – 180 C.E.), Tertullian (160 – ? C.E.), Clement of Alexandria (? – 215 C.E.), Origen (185 – 232 C.E.), Hippolytus (? – 236 C.E.), and Cyprian (? – 254 C.E.). As you can see, all these people lived well after the alleged death of Jesus. Not one of them provides an eyewitness account, all of them simply spout hearsay.

The information in the Talmud (which contains the Baraitas and the Gemara), concerning Yeishu and ben Stada, is so damaging to Christianity that Christians have always taken drastic measures against it. When the Christians first discovered the information they immediately tried to wipe it out by censoring the Talmud. The Basle edition of the Talmud (c. 1578 – 1580) had all the passages relating to Yeishu and ben Stada deleted by the Christians. Even today, editions of the Talmud used by Christian scholars lack these passages!

During the first few decades of this century, fierce academic battles raged between atheist and Christian scholars over the true origins of Christianity. The Christians were forced to face up to the Talmudic evidence. They could no longer ignore it and so they decided to attack it instead. They claimed that the Talmudic Yeishu was a distortion of the “historical Jesus.” [1]

ORIGINAL

A second non-Christian Roman historian also spoke of Nero persecuting Christians (Suetonius, “Life of the Emperor Nero” Chapter 16). My point is, that even non-Christian sources confirm that Christianity was well established by 67 A.D. (Suetonius also referred to the resurrection of Jesus as a “mischievous superstition”!) Additionally, the Jewish Talmud in Sanhedrin 43A calls Jesus a Sorcerer (and elsewhere also speaks of His “miracles” but attributes them to Satan)—Thus it seems that even the Jewish leaders who rejected Jesus are admitting that His acts seemed supernatural! Finally, 1st Century Jewish Historian Josephus also spoke of Christianity as having a wide following (Antiquities XVIIIiii).

(His surviving literature also calls Jesus Messiah and has several “pro-Christian” comments… But even though Josephus is widely accepted throughout academia as a major historian of the first century, that particular text was probably later tampered with. Although some Christians cite it as strong “outside” support for the historicity of several of Christianity’s claims, I agree with the skeptics that these particular statements are unreliable. It would be dishonest scholarship for me to “side with Christianity” when the evidence is questionable. There’s enough reliable evidence, anyway!).

Finally, of course, numerous Christian sources outside the Bible support the historicity of martyrdom of eyewitnesses of Jesus, and support profusely the fact that the basic tenets of Christianity were established quickly after the death (and resurrection) of Jesus. [1]

This is what really caught my attention: Additionally, the Jewish Talmud in Sanhedrin 43A calls Jesus a Sorcerer (and elsewhere also speaks of His “miracles” but attributes them to Satan)—

When I did the research for confirmation, this is what I found:

On the eve of Passover they hanged Jesus.

[11] But surly it was taught: “On Passover Eve they hanged Jesus of Nazareth. [12] And the herald went out before him forty days, and proclaimed: ‘Jesus of Nazareth is going out to be stoned because he practiced sorcery, incited and led Israel astray. [13] Whoever knows of an argument that may be proposed in his favor should come and present that argument on his behalf.’ [14] But the judges did not find an argument in his favor, and so they hanged him on Passover Eve.” Reason for his hanging.

[5] What do they do to him? [6] They light a candle for him in the inner room where he will be more likely to speak openly, [7] and they plant witnesses in the outer room which remains in darkness, [8] so the witnesses can see inciter, and hear his voice, but he cannot see them. [9] And the person to whom he had spoken says to him: ‘Repeat for me what you had said earlier, for we are alone.’ [10] If the inciter repeats his words of incitement, [11] his interlocutor says to him: ‘How can we abandon our God in heaven, and go and worship an idol? [12] If the inciter shows remorse and retracts what he had said, that is good. [13] And if he says: ‘it is our obligation to worship idols, and it is good for us,’ [14] the witnesses who hear him from outside may bring him to court, and he is stoned. [15] It was related that this is precisely what they did to the well-known inciter, the son of Setada in the city of Lod, [16] who was hanged for his crimes on the eve of Passover.*

* Got to admit they did set his ass up beautiful! Mother and Father of Jesus

[17] Was the inciter the son of Setada? [18] But surely we know that he was the son of Pandera! [19] The husband of the inciter’s was named Setada, and so the inciter was known as the son of Setada. [20] But her lover, who was in fact the inciter’s father, was named Pandera, and so the inciter was also known as the son of Pandera. …….. [3] But surely it is known that the inciter’s mother was named Miryam the woman’s hair-dresser! [2]

Let’s analyze this:

Jesus of Nazareth ~ (The Talmud) ~ Mother and Father: Miryam and Pandera

Jesus of Nazareth ~ (The Bible) ~ Mother and Father(s): Mary, A God, and Joseph

Jesus of Nazareth ~ (The Talmud) ~ Reason for his hanging: Because he praticed sorcery,* incited and led Israel astray. **

Jesus of Nazareth ~ (The Bible) ~ Reason for his crucifixion: To take on the sins of of mankind. Adam and Eve led mankind astray.**

Jesus of Nazareth ~ (The Talmud) ~ Legal action and Punishment: Trial/Death **

Jesus of Nazareth ~ (The Bible) ~ Legal action and Punishment: Trial/Death **

* Question: What do the fact that The Talmud Jesus of Nazareth is called a Sorcerer has to do with the Bible Jesus of Nazareth as this Christian would have us to believe in her writing?

** Coincidence, Miracle, or Plagiarism?

After presenting my research paper, she present the following to me:

TO CORRECT:

(An interesting fact also: Scholars say that practically the whole of the New Testament can be constructed simply from quotations and writings of early Christian writers—even if the Bible itself were to have disappeared!)

(Note: Many say the Jewish Talmud in Sanhedrin 43A speaks of Jesus, which says he was hung on the Eve of Passover and that he practiced Sorcery (and elsewhere also speaks of His “miracles” but attributes them to Satan)…It is probably true that Sanhedrin 43A refers to Jesus [even though several details given about this “Jesus” (Yeshu in Hebrew) don’t agree with the historical Jesus of the Bible,* and many Jews argue it wasn’t about Jesus at all. The confusion seems to stem from the fact that the Talmud was written centuries afterwards, and probably as a rebuttal by the Jews to Christianity… Hence when it speaks of 5 of Yeshu’s disciples whose names aren’t the same as the Gospels, these were probably later followers of Jesus… Also these and other details in the passage were obviously written from an antagonistic viewpoint.

* Then why on Mother Green Earth did she try to pass the several details writings of the Talmud Jesus of Nazareth off as the so called Bible Jesus of Nazareth in the original version? i.e. Talmud in Sanhedrin 43A calls Jesus a Sorcerer and Thus it seems that even the Jewish leaders who rejected Jesus are admitting that His acts seemed supernatural! Why didn’t she just be truthful and honest and put these statements in the original version instead of the To Correct version before I gave her my research paper into the matter?

Regarding dating of the contents of the Talmud, the theological points were their emphasis—historical dating was often wrong in the Talmud and often not even of special concern—and regardless, it was written centuries after the facts and so naturally prone to factual errors) **

** Rationalizing! She know for a fact I caught her lying, cheating, and deceiving and now she’s trying to clean it up! She must rationalize to convince herself that what she believe and have faith to be true of the existence of Jesus is true! And again, why didn’t she put these statements in the original version instead of the To Correct before I gave her my research into the matter?

The logical and intelligent question here is; If the writings of the Talmud was indeed about the so called historical Jesus of Nazareth of The Bible as this Christian want us to believe, then why on Mother Green Earth would they wait centuries after the facts to write about it! Where’s the logic in what she’s presenting! The most logical and intelligent route would be to make the writings contemporary by writing about the actual facts as they naturally happened as time passed on!

It’s certainly interesting (assuming this passage indeed was about Jesus!) that the Jews here referred to Jesus as a Sorcerer! (A convenient way to “explain away” acts which obviously appeared to be supernatural!)! ***

*** She’s simply in denial! At this point, she’ll say just about anything to protect her faith and belief! We can obviously see by compare and contrast of both, Jesus of Nazareth of The Talmud and Jesus of Nazareth of the Bible that all references to Jesus is to that of the Talmud! Pure, Plain, and Simple!

She is somewhat honest (in a lame sort of way), concerning the writings of 1st Century Jewish Historian Josephus…..Although some Christians cite it as strong “outside” support for the historicity of several of Christianity’s claims, I agree with the skeptics that these particular statements are unreliable., only because she knows for a fact that scholars have completely eradicated the text as not being authentic!

I did some research on Antiquities of the Jews and the passage about Jesus is indeed out context with the context of the rest of the chapter. A lot of Christians continue to cite this passage as proof to the existence of their Jesus of Nazareth to unsuspecting laymen who simply refuse to do research into the claims Christians present to them.

A fellow writer, Kenneth Humphreys, sums the passage up absolutely beautiful when he write:

“Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.”

– Josephus (aka Joseph ben Matthias) The Antiquities of the Jews, Book 18, Chapter 3: the so-called Testimonium Flavianum.

Josephus (c37-100 AD)

Flavius Josephus is a highly respected and much-quoted Romano-Jewish historian. The early Christians were zealous readers of his work.

A native of Judea, living in the 1st century AD, Josephus was actually governor of Galilee for a time (prior to the war of 70 AD) – the very province in which Jesus allegedly did his wonders. Though not born until 37 AD and therefore not a contemporary witness to any Jesus-character, Josephus at one point even lived in Cana, the very city in which Christ is said to have wrought his first miracle.

Josephus’s two major tomes are History of The Jewish War and The Antiquities of the Jews. In these complementary works, the former written in the 70s, the latter in the 90s AD, Josephus mentions every noted personage of Palestine and describes every important event which occurred there during the first seventy years of the Christian era.

At face value, Josephus appears to be the answer to the Christian apologist’s dreams.

In a single paragraph (the so-called Testimonium Flavianum) Josephus confirms every salient aspect of the Christ-myth:

1. Jesus’s existence 2. his ‘more than human’ status 3. his miracle working 4. his teaching 5. his ministry among the Jews and the Gentiles 6. his Messiahship 7. his condemnation by the Jewish priests 8. his sentence by Pilate 9. his death on the cross 10. the devotion of his followers 11. his resurrection on the 3rd day 12. his post-death appearance 13. his fulfillment of divine prophesy 14. the successful continuance of the Christians.

In just 127 words Josephus confirms everything – now that is a miracle!

BUT WAIT A MINUTE …

Not a single writer before the 4th century – not Justin, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Cyprian, Arnobius, etc. – in all their defences against pagan hostility, makes a single reference to Josephus’ wondrous words.

The third century Church ‘Father’ Origen, for example, spent half his life and a quarter of a million words contending against the pagan writer Celsus. Origen drew on all sorts of proofs and witnesses to his arguments in his fierce defence of Christianity. He quotes from Josephus extensively. Yet even he makes no reference to this ‘golden paragraph’ from Josephus, which would have been the ultimate rebuttal. In fact, Origen actually said that Josephus was “not believing in Jesus as the Christ.” Origen did not quote the ‘golden paragraph’ because this paragraph had not yet been written.

It was absent from early copies of the works of Josephus and did not appear in Origen’s third century version of Josephus, referenced in his Contra Celsum. [3]

Out of ignorance, Christians unwittingly or deceptively violate the rules of historiography by using “after-the-event” writings as evidence for the actual event itself. It doesn’t matter what people wrote about Jesus, an author who writes after an alleged event and give no detectable sources for his material can only give examples of hearsay. The anachronistic writings about Jesus come from faith, beliefs and hearsay from Christians themselves. And as we know for a fact, faith and beliefs do not require facts or evidence. Belief does not equal fact, we simply have beliefs of Jesus existence, we simply don’t have any facts of his existence.

[1] For the Thinking Mind…Did the Bible Predict the Year of Christ’s Crucifixion, 600 Years before He was born? By Valerie Rose Appendix #1 Endnotes 118 [pg. 116]

[2] The Talmud: The Steinsaltz Edition Volume XVII Tractate Sanhedrin Part III [pg. 158] Literal Translation

[3] Kenneth Humphreys – Author of Jesus Never Existed www.jesusneverexisted.com

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: